Talks about otome games, drama cds, and occasionally provides advice? Running away endlessly from my backlog of hobbies.

Ilinox

Hmm, I actually think things still won't be as simple as just seeing if the next CN otome game announcement is 3D or 2D.

If the next CN otome game announcement is made by a small studio trying to get some of the pie (whether it's because there still is a pie to be shared or because Love and Deepspace did bring a small amount of new blood to otome games), then I don't think they'll have the budget to do anything but 2D. In order to differentiate themselves from what's already in the market though, they might put in bells and whistles like live2D or something.

If the next CN otome game announcement is made by a large company (and we're talking about multimillion or billion dollar companies that are going to assign studios directly under them to make one, like Netease, Tencent, Mihoyo, or Papergames), then I think it's likely we'll see some kind of 3D, maybe leaning more towards animation than realism (again, because they would want to differentiate themselves from their competitor).

At this point in time, given the lack of movement from any company, I don't think the conversation is about whether 3D or 2D is more profitable, but rather what can catch their target audience's eyes, which in turn will naturally lead to more revenue.

People somehow simultaneously think companies are filled with scum who know exactly how to squeeze every penny out of their customers, but they're also dumb and won't do things that will make bank. Seriously, which is it? LOL. If we do a simple thought experiment and imagine ourselves to be the CEO of a billion dollar company tasked with making a profitable otome game, what are the things you would consider? I would go with 3D, regardless of its cost, simply because that's currently novel in everyone's eyes and because it would be hard to guarantee that something 2D will break out of the current saturation. Even if I had a team of acclaimed writers, I would hesitate to put my money on quality writing hooking people.

The whole thing that irritates me with Love and Deepspace and people being like "We need more 3D competition and clearly everyone is going to copy LaDS" is that it's so shortsighted. No, it's clear to anyone with a brain that the next 3D otome game is going to get hit with the label "copycat" and that's why other companies are hesitating unless they can guarantee something new (not to mention, like my thread said, the companies that actually have the budget to invest in a 3D otome game have their hands full with their 2D otome games right now).

I agree in that I don't think the other otome games doubling down on 2D are trying to prove 2D is more profitable or more sought after, they're just playing on their strengths like you said. I do find it amusing though that they're doing this at all, because it shows they have a bone to pick with Love and Deepspace (or its players bullying their players LOL).

Regarding the 3D cutscenes for Love and Deepspace, people truly just want all the benefits without any drawbacks. The research cost alone for them to build their modeling programs probably costs 60% of their revenue and people constantly want Papergames to show new things like feather wings, scale wings, dragon tails, merman tails, mechanical suits, etc. Like, all of that needs to be modeled and rigged and wasn't there a post going around saying Qi Yu's tail was the most expensive thing this year? If people want longer cutscenes, then they have to accept they will get less flashy and new stuff. People also seem to underestimate how much money goes into advertising and LaDS definitely has aggressive advertising LOL.

All of the above is being optimistic that Papergames is reinvesting into the game. If I was being pessimistic, then I would say there are rumors Infinity Nikki is not doing as well as PG hoped and PG also has 2 other investments (an ARPG and puzzle game) that need money for development, so LaDS revenue could potentially be going to those projects. PG games are known for having to work their asses off to feed their younger siblings LOL.

For what it's worth (given my feelings for Love and Deepspace LOL), I don't get the feeling that LaDS is being perfunctory in their service (unlike MHY with Tears of Themis during the 3rd year). From everything I see, it's just business as usual, including the probes at the bottom line of the players with their cosmetics.

There's no need to apologize at all, because look at the length of my reply HAHA. You really shouldn't have told me that last line though, because I'm going to be encouraged to yap more now that I know it's not just going into the void or being heard by people who already share the same view.

Hmm, I actually think things still won't be as simple as just seeing if the next CN otome game announcement is 3D or 2D.

If the next CN otome game announcement is made by a small studio trying to get some of the pie (whether it's because there still is a pie to be shared or because Love and Deepspace did bring a small amount of new blood to otome games), then I don't think they'll have the budget to do anything but 2D. In order to differentiate themselves from what's already in the market though, they might put in bells and whistles like live2D or something.

If the next CN otome game announcement is made by a large company (and we're talking about multimillion or billion dollar companies that are going to assign studios directly under them to make one, like Netease, Tencent, Mihoyo, or Papergames), then I think it's likely we'll see some kind of 3D, maybe leaning more towards animation than realism (again, because they would want to differentiate themselves from their competitor).

At this point in time, given the lack of movement from any company, I don't think the conversation is about whether 3D or 2D is more profitable, but rather what can catch their target audience's eyes, which in turn will naturally lead to more revenue.

People somehow simultaneously think companies are filled with scum who know exactly how to squeeze every penny out of their customers, but they're also dumb and won't do things that will make bank. Seriously, which is it? LOL. If we do a simple thought experiment and imagine ourselves to be the CEO of a billion dollar company tasked with making a profitable otome game, what are the things you would consider? I would go with 3D, regardless of its cost, simply because that's currently novel in everyone's eyes and because it would be hard to guarantee that something 2D will break out of the current saturation. Even if I had a team of acclaimed writers, I would hesitate to put my money on quality writing hooking people.

The whole thing that irritates me with Love and Deepspace and people being like "We need more 3D competition and clearly everyone is going to copy LaDS" is that it's so shortsighted. No, it's clear to anyone with a brain that the next 3D otome game is going to get hit with the label "copycat" and that's why other companies are hesitating unless they can guarantee something new (not to mention, like my thread said, the companies that actually have the budget to invest in a 3D otome game have their hands full with their 2D otome games right now).

I agree in that I don't think the other otome games doubling down on 2D are trying to prove 2D is more profitable or more sought after, they're just playing on their strengths like you said. I do find it amusing though that they're doing this at all, because it shows they have a bone to pick with Love and Deepspace (or its players bullying their players LOL).

Regarding the 3D cutscenes for Love and Deepspace, people truly just want all the benefits without any drawbacks. The research cost alone for them to build their modeling programs probably costs 60% of their revenue and people constantly want Papergames to show new things like feather wings, scale wings, dragon tails, merman tails, mechanical suits, etc. Like, all of that needs to be modeled and rigged and wasn't there a post going around saying Qi Yu's tail was the most expensive thing this year? If people want longer cutscenes, then they have to accept they will get less flashy and new stuff. People also seem to underestimate how much money goes into advertising and LaDS definitely has aggressive advertising LOL.

All of the above is being optimistic that Papergames is reinvesting into the game. If I was being pessimistic, then I would say there are rumors Infinity Nikki is not doing as well as PG hoped and PG also has 2 other investments (an ARPG and puzzle game) that need money for development, so LaDS revenue could potentially be going to those projects. PG games are known for having to work their asses off to feed their younger siblings LOL.

For what it's worth (given my feelings for Love and Deepspace LOL), I don't get the feeling that LaDS is being perfunctory in their service (unlike MHY with Tears of Themis during the 3rd year). From everything I see, it's just business as usual, including the probes at the bottom line of the players with their cosmetics.

There's no need to apologize at all, because look at the length of my reply HAHA. You really shouldn't have told me that last line though, because I'm going to be encouraged to yap more now that I know it's not just going into the void or being heard by people who already share the same view.

Forgive me if the title is not accurate, but imagine a company announced a new otome game in a few years. I feel like whether it's 2d or 3d would end the debate once and for all on if 3d is actually more profitable or more sought after by players. Because no one jumps into a competitive market without researching it right? You raised a similar argument in how the rest of the big6 are digging their heels into 2d more, but that could be playing at their strengths instead of definitively proving the above point. Trying to be what they're not would be a detriment, similar to how trying to sell gameplay as a visual novel will weaken both.

And I just realized but given otomes are essentially visual novels, their fanbases will usually boast about characters or story any chance they get. I'll bring up art for example but always add how much I adore the story. But that game's fanbase leans so far into "3d! It's 3d! It's unprecedented!" Makes it feel like there's not much else to talk about lol. Which to be fair, PG opened with that when marketing the game. But that's all it should be; the opening. Now many of those players complain that the 3d cutscenes are getting shorter, but very few appreciate that the stories are getting longer, regardless of their quality which I can't speak on. For me, main story is the core to an otome because it sets the stage for much of the worldbuilding and character development, and I left the game uninterested.

Anyway, I understand them feeling put off by the shorter cutscenes even if I can't relate because I personally don't care for them, but it seems like all of their complaints originate from revenue arguments. Like, they make so much money surely they can be better at _____. Which would be valid if the revenue said anything about the profit margin. The other issue is nothing is definitive. Money≠quality 1 to 1. If the game was designed to be a quick buck for pg, no amount of money is changing that. If they limit themselves creatively, through stuff like treating the cast like an idol group, they will never explore each LI creatively. 

So even while they cut corners so much, I can't comfortably associate that with profits being poorer than anticipated because there are so many other variables. 

Sorry for making this so long, but I just love your insights and mulling over your arguments because I realized they tend to be more grounded than most. Sincerely, a qc stan that could have gone rabid if you didn't indirectly speak sense to her 😭 

Ilinox

The CN otome market seems saturated but..